The art of networking for career development

Khaulat Abdulhakeem
She is the Founder & CEO of DiverseK and host of the DiverseK podcast. DiverseK helps guide and connect diverse tech talents to companies globally.
Dean Karrel
He is a career development advisor with a background in publishing and sales.

[00:00:00] Khaulat: With me today is Dean Karrel, who is a career development advisor. And he's a fellow LinkedIn learning instructor and we'll be chatting about, the art of networking for career development. I'm just going to allow Dean tell us about himself, and his career background.

[00:00:16] Dean Karrel: Khaulat first off, it's such a treat to be with you today. I've watched a number of your live broadcasts, and you have such a diverse group of people joining you, talking about technology, talking about careers, and it is such a treat. And as I did watch and take your course on LinkedIn learning.

[00:00:32] Dean Karrel: I successfully passed it, which is a shock. You taught a terrific course and I learned so much. My background is actually in the publishing business. I spent more than three decades with publishing companies based in the us. And I left that job about six years ago. And I went back to school.

[00:00:49] Dean Karrel: New York university took courses in human resources management, and I do work now as a career coach. I do presentations based off of my book, mastering the basics. And then I [00:01:00] have 14 courses with LinkedIn learning. So a little bit of a diverse portfolio of activities that I'm involved with. 

[00:01:07] Khaulat: Yeah, that's quite interesting.

[00:01:09] Khaulat: It's very interesting. I've checked some of Dean's courses. They are very valuable and his book also, I have it here. You might want to check it also mastering the basics. 

[00:01:17] Khaulat: Okay. So let's dive into the topic for the day. I'm gonna start by asking you, Dean, what has networking been like for you? 

[00:01:26] Dean Karrel: Networking is one of those terms that when people say it, people normally cringe, they hear the word networking, and we have this impression that we've gotta meet 50 people in a ballroom or in a conference.

[00:01:37] Dean Karrel: Or we have a little name tag that says, hi, I'm Dean. And it has a very negative connotation. So I often try to tell people, just think of it as communicating, socializing. Don't think of it as a negative. Think of it as an opportunity to meet other people and explore ideas and open up ideas and listen to others.

[00:01:57] Dean Karrel: I tie it very closely with the [00:02:00] importance of emotional intelligence, which is being aware and listening, asking good questions, showing compassionate empathy, all of those things I think are involved with networking and I have found it to be something it's something I really enjoy doing. And It's something I enjoy talking about that take away the negativity that a lot of people have with it.

[00:02:21] Khaulat: Okay, great. Dean, how would you say networking has helped your career? 

[00:02:25] Dean Karrel: I talk about this a lot and the importance of networking on me and on my career. And I would think probably most of the jobs I've had in my career have come through me being introduced by somebody, to the company I went to and those connections have been invaluable. We all apply to jobs or look for jobs through various means, and we use LinkedIn for that and use those connections to find opportunities with new companies.

[00:02:48] Dean Karrel: But that has been the most critically important thing for me. I mentioned I have courses with LinkedIn learning and the way that came to be was that somebody I used to work with years ago posted an article on [00:03:00] LinkedIn and I just responded to them and I said, what you've written is very insightful.

[00:03:04] Dean Karrel: I really enjoy what you have to talk about. And it was just reaching out in a very casual way. And this person then came back to me and they said, Dean, it's great to hear from you again, by the way, I work with Linda was the name of LinkedIn learning before the name change before the acquisition.

[00:03:21] Dean Karrel: And this woman said to me, Dean, I'm looking for somebody who can teach some basic sales courses. And that came from me just responding to her from an article. So that basic networking was so valuable to me. In my work now in coaching and training, I have a fancy website, have all of these.

[00:03:38] Dean Karrel: The vast majority of the connections and opportunities I get are from people reaching out to me because they've heard of me from somebody else. Again, the basics of networking and communication and staying in touch with others. 

[00:03:51] Khaulat: Yeah, just like you say it people think it's one very big deal. It's just, having normal conversation with people and [00:04:00] staying in touch, basically.

[00:04:01] Khaulat: Like how you respond to an article. It's not like you have to sit down, try to compose a whole message and all of that 

[00:04:08] Dean Karrel: That's a very important point. Sometimes we try to make it too formal. You have to have this broad statement where you're trying to overcomplicate it.

[00:04:15] Dean Karrel: Everything I talk about in my work and in my business is keep things simple. so communication. Just reaching out to say hello. It's one of those key aspects that I always talk about. Be good to people. Be nice to people communicate with others. That's what networking is all about. 

[00:04:32] Khaulat: Yeah, thanks Dean.

[00:04:34] Khaulat: What's the easier way to network? . 

[00:04:38] Dean Karrel: I think if I got your question, , what is the easiest way to network? How do I go about doing it? What's the best way I think LinkedIn has made networking,they put it on a silver platter for you, meaning it's make it so simple.

[00:04:50] Dean Karrel: Again we're often concerned about networking being in a group of 50 people, or we're at a meeting and we're told to have a networking break. LinkedIn makes it [00:05:00] very simple because people post information, they post stories, they post comments, they post business topics. And here's a great way to respond to somebody and say I like what you're doing.

[00:05:11] Dean Karrel: I like what you're writing about. I have interest in what you're doing and there's an old line of six degrees of separation that we're all connected. I think in this day and age, because of LinkedIn, that degrees is three, I know you'll introduce me to somebody else that connections are so close in this day and age.

[00:05:28] Dean Karrel: And LinkedIn, I think enable us to do it in a very nonthreatening way. It's very simple, but you'd have to take the first steps to do it. 

[00:05:38] Khaulat: Thanks, Dean. Okay. So let's look at how you reach out to new people. How do you go about it? 

[00:05:45] Dean Karrel: What's interesting is that it's 2021, and the communication sometimes with the internet still drives us crazy. Again, I think what your question was, how do I reach or how have I met certain people? And I could tell a couple stories about that is that If you look at LinkedIn a couple years ago, [00:06:00] there's this terrific coach who's based in the United Arab Emirates.

[00:06:03] Dean Karrel: And her name is Dr. Natalia V Husky. And I started following her about three or four years ago on LinkedIn. And she would post some videos and she'd post some stories about coaching and training. And how to brand ourselves. And I just wrote to her and I said, I really am impressed with what you're doing.

[00:06:19] Dean Karrel: I think she had five or 6,000 followers at the time. She has about over a hundred thousand followers now. And a few years ago she happened to travel to the US. And I met her in New York city, again, just from a basic thing of me reaching out to her and. I like what you're doing, I'm impressed with what you're doing.

[00:06:39] Dean Karrel: The other funny aspect about her trip to New York, and again, that ties in with networking. We were I told her, let's go over to the LinkedIn offices, which are the umpire state building. And Dr. V Huski also has courses off LinkedIn learning group in German. And so I said, let's go to the offices here in New York.

[00:06:56] Dean Karrel: To have you meet some people that I know. And we [00:07:00] met another LinkedIn learning instructor who I had connected with because I was again so impressed with her work. She's a CEO and a founder of her own businesses. I had her meet a few of the sales people that I connect with from the LinkedIn operation.

[00:07:12] Dean Karrel: One of them being a good friend of my daughters somebody who I used to work with in one of my old companies. Was there at the New York office. And he had transferred from Australia to New York and was now working with LinkedIn. So here we are. All of these people from diverse groups, diverse countries, diverse businesses, all happen to be at the LinkedIn offices at the same time.

[00:07:35] Dean Karrel: And I was able to connect them all and I have this great picture of all of us there. And it's a fun story about of network. 

[00:07:44] Khaulat: Yeah, that's quite interesting. Messages Another question Dean, how to find a mentor through networking.

[00:07:51] Dean Karrel: Yeah. Mentors is a very important thing throughout your careers and is finding those people who you can be, who are trusted advisors, [00:08:00] whether it's a mentor or a coach. And you just don't, randomly reach out to somebody saying, I need you as a mentor. It's something where you have to develop trust.

[00:08:08] Dean Karrel: And that starts with that first initial email, that first contact, maybe on LinkedIn saying I'm impressed, with your work, you ask questions, you ask for advice. There are a number of people. I have a good friend of mine who lives in Prague and the Czech Republic, who again, through some basic connections and work I mentored him on some advice on some things now.

[00:08:29] Dean Karrel: So these are things that take time to build. But I think having a mentor is so critically important for all of us throughout our careers. Even somebody who's been in business, as long as I have, I always reach out to other people.. 

[00:08:43] Khaulat: Okay, here is another one. Is meet up a good way to network. 

[00:08:46] Dean Karrel: Yes. I think you have to find whatever avenue works best for you. Whatever works makes you feel most comfortable, for me, It's LinkedIn and just reaching out like this and doing notes or emails to people or messages [00:09:00] on LinkedIn or responding to their work.

[00:09:02] Dean Karrel: You can go with meetup, you can do other functions, you can do special events. And, you have to make sure you're comfortable with whatever avenue you take. I think it's also important to remember. You can do any type of networking event or project. But what you're looking to do is just connect with one.

[00:09:19] Dean Karrel: Don't look at this as saying, I have to meet 50 people or learn and develop a relationship with 20 people. Just find one start there. 

[00:09:28] Khaulat: Yeah. And there are definitely networks of people or groups of people that you can connect with. And if not, you can even start your own network or, your own community just to bring people of the same mind together.

[00:09:42] Khaulat: When I wanted to start my career. AI back here in Abeokuta, there was nobody doing it. And I looked around, there was nobody. And, I was learning about AI. I wanted to be able to meet people, ask people what they were doing in their careers. And then I [00:10:00] decided, okay, I'm going to start community.

[00:10:02] Khaulat: And I started AI Abeokuta. The interesting thing is by the first meet up I had over 50 sign ups, 50 people came. There are actually people interested in this thing. They are people doing it, but they just didn't like, know that there was a, there was no group, bringing them together. So yes, you can definitely, Organize something, bring the people in your career space together.

[00:10:28] Khaulat: Whatever it is you're doing, is it programming? Is it anything at all find a community? And if you don't find one, you can definitely create one and you can find international communities too .That's why it's online and it's very good. You can find tons of communities, amazing communities online now that you can join.

[00:10:46] Khaulat: So yes, definitely meet meetup is great and, reaching out to people one on one is also great. 

[00:10:52] Dean Karrel: Yeah, I think that's excellent advice. And it's what I love about LinkedIn is the fact you're in Nigeria, I'm in the United States and you're [00:11:00] able to connect again, I have sales people that I work with and I'm connected with, from virtually every country around the world.

[00:11:07] Dean Karrel: And what you learn and what you learn is maybe our accents are different and our religions may be different. But at the end of the day, we have things in common. And there's a guy I know from he's from the Toms region of Russia in Siberia and his name is Alex and he's a lot younger than me, but we are very similar.

[00:11:25] Dean Karrel: He's a great salesman. And I met him because of LinkedIn. And what you learn is we have so many more things in common than we all suspect. Yeah. And that global aspect of networking, I think, is important for a variety of reasons, breaks down a lot of barriers. . 

[00:11:42] Khaulat: Yeah, that's true. Okay.

[00:11:44] Khaulat: Someone asked, how do you target potential employers through networking? 

[00:11:50] Dean Karrel: You learn a lot about companies through networking, both good and bad. And I think that's what is so much better than what it was. When I first [00:12:00] got into business, we all went blindly looking at companies and there was not a lot of research we could get about companies.

[00:12:06] Dean Karrel: But now in this day and age, I talk about this a lot. In fact, I posted about this a few weeks ago on LinkedIn and about interviews processes that can take a long time. It is really important. The research you do as you target potential employers, the research you do about companies, and there's so much information, you can find both publicly and on their websites.

[00:12:27] Dean Karrel: But through networking, you can ask people who used to work at, the Dean Karrel company or whatever, what is it like to work there? Are there room, is there room for development and growth and have basic questions that you can ask through this whole process, but that gets a great question of how you target your potential employers.

[00:12:46] Dean Karrel: And it's a lot easier to do now than it was years ago, but you need to take the time to do it. 

[00:12:53] Khaulat: Yes, you need to take the time, research the person you're reaching out to and make sure you're reaching out to somebody that can actually [00:13:00] help you. Depending on the role you're applying for, it might be good.

[00:13:04] Khaulat: If you're applying for a front end development role at a company. Some companies have specific recruiters for specific roles. So you might want to like find a front end development recruiter at a target for that role you're applying for at that company, and also look at what you have in common with this person.

[00:13:25] Khaulat: And try to engage with the person before you reach out it always. 

[00:13:31] Dean Karrel: oh, that is that's excellent advice. It's too often, we go from hello to asking for a favor. and you have to develop some communication, some trust, and it's a give and take that's, what's goes back to the emotional intelligence aspect of this whole part of networking, whether you're looking for technology job, a sales job, it is learning about the other person first and getting a relationship started and then asking questions.

[00:13:55] Dean Karrel: And then also saying, how can I help you? What can I do for you? [00:14:00] And it's not all a lot about me. if networking is a two way street, and so you make a great point there 

[00:14:08] Khaulat: Great! So, how do you find someone to partner with in business while networking 

[00:14:15] Dean Karrel: That goes back to trust. You don't partner with somebody.

[00:14:17] Dean Karrel: You don't develop a relationship at the first meeting and it takes time to develop and nurture. You're also gonna learn more about that person that maybe this is not somebody you do wanna partner with. So, a personal relationship for somebody, but with a business approach, it takes time to develop and nurture and grow.

[00:14:35] Dean Karrel: Some people you're gonna know right off the bat that you're gonna hit it off. Khaulat, when you and I met. Which is not that long ago, we developed a very quick relationship and understood each and so we could tell that we got along and could work together. There are others that I've met and I say, you know what?

[00:14:51] Dean Karrel: This is not gonna be an avenue or business person whom I'm probably not gonna develop a relationship long term with. So it's being able to assess [00:15:00] and evaluate people along the way if they're gonna be somebody you want to partner with in business. 

[00:15:05] Khaulat: Yeah. Okay, that sounds great. We have a contribution from Camille.

[00:15:11] Khaulat: Camille says in my current job search, I have used my network to connect with contacts that have worked for companies I'm applying to. I have also asked to meet with connections, the inquire, who else I should be connecting to what other areas I should be investigating. It has been invaluable to me.

[00:15:30] Khaulat: That's great, Camille. And thank you so much for that contribution. Yeah. What do you think about that, Dean? 

[00:15:36] Dean Karrel: That's a great statement. That's the basics of networking and the positives of it. I think there's another point to that and that's you're getting people to resond. 

[00:15:44] Dean Karrel: Oftentimes we hear from people, Dean, I reached out to somebody. And I wanted to make a connection and they never wrote me back. And we hear that a lot in business, unfortunately. And I think it's really important. And this goes back to empathy again, when somebody reaches out to you and asks for some [00:16:00] guidance, respond to them and try to help them try to assist.

[00:16:04] Dean Karrel: And if you can't. Don't ignore them to say I'm really busy. I can't. Why don't you talk with Khaulat instead, or talk with Dean instead or talk with somebody else in your network? It's probably something I come across now in my coaching work more than I ever suspected is people. We use the phrase ghosting people, where did they go?

[00:16:22] Dean Karrel: Write them and then you don't hear from them again. And that is not good. And that's not a reputation you want to have. I feel very fortunate. People always say to me, Dean, you always get back to me. I don't have all answers. That's for sure. And I admit what I don't have the, all the answers, but I will always try to find a way to help people and point them in the right direction.

[00:16:40] Khaulat: Yeah, for me, if I can't like respond to the person directly, I recommend the resource, it makes it very easy. If there are resources that I could recommend even it could be a video or a past session on the DiverseK live that would be helpful to. It always helps to respond, at least, and just go to the person because that [00:17:00] person's at the stage in their career where they're trying to like make a decision and they saw you as somebody that could help and yeah, they reached out. 

[00:17:10] Dean Karrel: Because you help your reputation, gets enhanced and people will say nice things and then other opportunities can come along from that.

[00:17:18] Dean Karrel: So it's there's a two way street again with all of this. And again, it goes back to, I think the basics of just being a good person to other people. 

[00:17:27] Khaulat: Yeah. And if you are in the position, if you're a student or a recent graduate, this also applies to you. There are definitely people that you can help.

[00:17:36] Dean Karrel: It could be fellow students that you could help maybe with certain resources, some questions related to maybe an application or something you can always help build your network with the people around you. It's a good way to start and then you can expand from there. You talk a lot about that in your work, and I think that's so important.

[00:17:57] Dean Karrel: It is building from the students you went to school [00:18:00] with and staying in touch with them. You just touched on when I went back to college not that long ago, a few years ago to take those courses that I mentioned, and I stayed in touch with students that I was in class with. I was twice their age for most of these students, but I've remained in touch with a number of them.

[00:18:14] Dean Karrel: And those are great connections where I've able to help them and they've been able to help me. Great advice. 

[00:18:20] Khaulat: Yeah, that's great.. So Mike asked, hey Dean, what's the name of your book? I have it here. the name of the book is mastering the basics. Simple lessons for achieving success in business.

[00:18:34] Khaulat: Dean, do you wanna talk a bit about your book? 

[00:18:36] Dean Karrel: Michael you're very kind to bring up my book. That was'nt what I was expecting. That was nice you. I've been in business for a long time and I jokingly say to people, I was not, a student. I was a good student.

[00:18:47] Dean Karrel: But I was an average student. Say, how do you become successful in business? And I talk about the importance of basic skills and it is whether it is networking learning to communicate better, always be learning. [00:19:00] Your education and training never ends certainly in the technology fields that you're working in Khaulat,

[00:19:05] Dean Karrel: If you're not continuing to learn, you're gonna fall behind. And that's very true in business also. So in my book, I have about 200 different topics where I talk about the basic business skills that I've learned. And a lot of them, are topics that I don't think are discussed in business school or in universities.

[00:19:22] Dean Karrel: I think it's lessons that we learn throughout the course of our life and I think those are


[00:19:28] Khaulat: Yeah. I highly recommend the book, so you should definitely get it. If you're thinking about Michael Yes, Jade. You have a good question here. How to keep networking after our first contact 

[00:19:39] Dean Karrel: Again, don't overthink it.

[00:19:40] Dean Karrel: It's almost like being with your friends. You don't check in with your friends every day. I have a lot of people in my network. It doesn't mean I'm communicating with 10,000 people every week. I have a few people I check in with pretty regularly and some I don't speak with

[00:19:53] Dean Karrel: for a couple of years and some have faded away through time because they were with a company that I worked with years ago and we all went [00:20:00] different directions. So you pick and choose it's common sense. And it's saying let me see how Khaulat is doing, how Dean is doing and check in how's business ?Again,

[00:20:09] Dean Karrel: linkedIn makes it so easy. People are writing, they're putting down information. It's Hey, did you take Khaulat's course? Did you watch Dean's course? What did you learn from it? Basic communication. Networking is communicating. It's socializing and there's a balance of too little and too much. So that goes back to basics of common sense.

[00:20:33] Dean Karrel: Check in every once in a while with some people. 

[00:20:36] Khaulat: Okay. Now let's tell some stories. Dean give us some interesting networking scenarios that you've gone through. 

[00:20:45] Dean Karrel: I love talking about that one with the woman who worked at the publishing company I used to be at and just saying to me, Dean I'm looking for somebody to do some basic sales courses, that came from networking.

[00:20:56] Dean Karrel: I think every day, I find a connection where somebody will [00:21:00] say to me, Dean, we used to work together years ago, or Dean, I do know somebody who works at this company and maybe it's cause of age, maybe I've been around so long that I've known a lot of people or been connected with a lot of people.

[00:21:13] Dean Karrel: Remember the thing that I'm saying about networking is.' It's communicating and responding'. So all of my stories come back to that is I used to work with this person. I knew that person. There's a gentleman who runs the LinkedIn learning program. He runs all of the content management for the global operation of LinkedIn low and behold years ago.

[00:21:36] Dean Karrel: About 2003, he used to work at the same publishing company as me and I saw him two years ago when I happened to be out at the studios in carpentry of California at LinkedIn, his name is Dan Bronz, and he said to me, Dean, we used to work together. And I still remember working with you, 15, 18 years ago.

[00:21:56] Dean Karrel: And we went in different directions and low and behold, we all [00:22:00] reconnected again. Thankfully, he had positive memories about me and it was nice. No, those are great at LinkedIn learning, there are about 15 people of my prior publishing company who worked there by just by accident.

[00:22:13] Dean Karrel: They went there, there was a connection with learning and the company that I worked for Wiley, which is a terrific publishing company. And we have this great picture from february of 2019, right before COVID hit we were all out in California. They had a meeting there and I had this great picture of me and about 12, 13 people who I used to work with years ago with this publishing company.

[00:22:34] Dean Karrel: And I had stayed in touch with many of them. Those are the fun stories that I think that what can happen with the basics of communicating and staying in touch which is networking. 

[00:22:45] Khaulat: Yeah. Interesting Dean. Okay. About networking, what are some things you would advise people to not do when networking?

[00:22:54] Dean Karrel: Too often people network, they go, hello then can I sell you something? . You'll get connections like these, or they [00:23:00] could come out of the blue and say, I need help. And we all need help or assistance on things. And that's why it's important to reach out to network in good times.

[00:23:10] Dean Karrel: And too often we associate networking with I've lost a job. And now the recruiter has told me to reach out to all of the people I know and help me find a job. And that's the real negative aspect of networking. Do this as a normal course of business, do this as a normal course of just being a good person.

[00:23:28] Dean Karrel: Don't think of networking as I've gotta meet 500 people. No, you start with, just find one person, start with one and I've gotten good at this, but this is a long time when I was in my early twenties, this was a lot more difficult for me. And now it comes naturally, but so if you're first starting and Dean to make it sound so easy, but when you first start find one person.

[00:23:53] Dean Karrel: Go on LinkedIn today and look at what some people are posting, see what your network is posting. And a lot of [00:24:00] people might have quotes or they're doing a poll. That's one thing. But some people you're fighting down, something that's really insightful or some interesting information.

[00:24:08] Dean Karrel: Just write down. I like what you said. How did you find me? You saw something where I posted, correct? 

[00:24:14] Khaulat: Yeah, I think that's it. I can't really remember how, but I think it's from your post. 

[00:24:19] Dean Karrel: Yeah. It was either a poster. I might have been with Dave Crenshaw.

[00:24:22] Dean Karrel: Who's another great networker from the LinkedIn learning library. He's one of the number one instructors by the way also. And he had posted something when he was in New York. I think you might have seen that. 

[00:24:32] Khaulat: Oh yeah. He mentioned you. 

[00:24:33] Dean Karrel: Yes. And then, so I said, oh, hi. And then I liked some of the work that you were doing.

[00:24:39] Dean Karrel: I saw what you've done. And then lo and behold, we able to connect. I tried to mail a book to somebody in the US. Recently it took three weeks. I was able to get the book to you in a week. 

[00:24:49] Khaulat: Yeah, that was a short time. 

[00:24:50] Dean Karrel: Yes. Then I think what people do again, I'm making this sound very simple. There's a great LinkedIn learning course by Dory Clark on the basics of networking [00:25:00] C L a R K Dory, D O R I E.

[00:25:03] Dean Karrel: And it's a great course on professional networking. And so you could take courses in this. And I think that's how you can learn to do it better. And you're always gonna have a little hesitancy and Dean I'm shy. I don't wanna talk. People often say I don't want to feel like I'm bothering somebody.

[00:25:20] Dean Karrel: Try it. Just go with one person. Not everybody's gonna respond. That's just human nature and don't take it personally. What you're looking for is finding somebody like you or I who will help you out. So folks listening, you want to connect or follow me? Please do, I post pretty regularly on LinkedIn?

[00:25:39] Dean Karrel: I'm three or four times a week posting about something, some business related topic. My background is sales. Most of the things I post about now are non sales related. I talk about interviewing. I talk about what's going on in business and so please reach out and follow me or connect if you want.

[00:25:58] Dean Karrel: And that's how it starts. [00:26:00] 

[00:26:00] Khaulat: Yeah, definitely follow Dean. Okay. I want to look at some more questions, cause there are lots. Just Steve, he asked, please suggest some tips again, internship in Canada in IT sector. Looking from the perspective of networking, because that's what we're talking about today.

[00:26:20] Khaulat: You can start by looking at the people in your network, right? Look at the people in the, IT sectors in your network. Is there anybody working at the company you would like to work at? How long have they been there? Could you like chat to them and reconnect? What's it like working there?

[00:26:34] Khaulat: What's the application process Could you even give me a referral, something like that. So you could find that in your network. And if there's somebody in your network also that knows about somebody working in that company you want to apply to, that's how networking works.

[00:26:50] Khaulat: First look at your close contacts, the people around you how they can help you. That's looking at at it from the area of networking and I believe that's what you're asking.[00:27:00] 

[00:27:00] Dean Karrel: Also I think, again, going back, when I first got into business, we would call up companies or write to companies saying you have internships, you could do a lot of research and you need to do this research before you contact companies, look at their websites and get in there and see, how their internship process works.

[00:27:18] Dean Karrel: Some people lay it all out. If you just call up blindly and say, or write to them and say, do you have any internships? People say this person hasn't done their research. You can get a couple of steps ahead of that and say, I saw the internships you had last year in your organization.

[00:27:32] Dean Karrel: I was wondering, are you gonna be going in that direction or you're gonna be doing more on machine language or this type of work or something in development areas. And so it shows that you've done your background work beforehand and gives you a little bit of a competitive edge.

[00:27:47] Khaulat: Yeah. There's this interesting question for you Dean, any tips for introverts. 

[00:27:55] Dean Karrel: I laugh and people say I'm an extroverted introvert, which means I love being [00:28:00] alone. I love sitting in my backyard being around nobody to be by myself. But when I have to be with people, I am an extrovert, so some people are introverts all the time.

[00:28:09] Dean Karrel: So I think this goes back to my point of don't think of 50 people. Think of one person and again, as an introvert, what a great place to be. You can be in your own office or at your own desk or in your own home and reach out to somebody on LinkedIn. And they're not gonna see you. You're not gonna intimidate them.

[00:28:29] Dean Karrel: And just write that one post comment. Boy, I was impressed with your work or what I learned about what you said. And as an introvert that gives you that first impression. It's not easy. I make it sound easy sometimes about meeting people and going on. I know it's difficult for some people cause you don't wanna be a pest or you don't wanna annoy or you don't wanna be told no.

[00:28:52] Dean Karrel: And those are normal human reactions. Even for somebody like me, believe me. . And so focus on, I just need to [00:29:00] meet one person. So the person who wrote that, connect with me. There's your start. Okay. So send me a LinkedIn connection today and we'll start with me. 

[00:29:08] Khaulat: Okay, could you suggest some tips for international students getting jobs after graduation? Yes. I have this interesting LinkedIn life coming up next week is about, getting jobs in, the current job market how to go about it. And that would be like more focused on job search, so you might want to sign up for that, but briefly, talking through networking again, linkedIn can be your first step, LinkedIn has this amazing feature where you can stream down what you're searching for it has all this what's it called?

[00:29:40] Khaulat: Yeah, Dean you want to remind me? 

[00:29:42] Dean Karrel: Yeah, you can search by region by country, by 

[00:29:45] Khaulat: state. Exactly. Exactly. So you can search for anything specific you're looking for is they particular country you are interested in, you can, search for Jobs in that area. So you can limit your such to that specific area.[00:30:00] 

[00:30:00] Khaulat: If it's a full time job, an entry job, you're looking for, you can start there. You can reach out to recruiters in those areas like we talked about earlier, you can reach out to recruiters, tell them, what you know about the job and, ask them for the questions if you have any.

[00:30:15] Khaulat: Yes, definitely start there and make sure you join next week, cause that will be more channeled towards this conversation. And if you don't know the DiverseK live is one I do every Friday. So it happens every Friday. So you can follow me to get updated. 

[00:30:33] Khaulat: We'll soon wrap this up. I'll take a few more questions. There's one from ARU. Some ways of networking on LinkedIn , like cold messaging.

[00:30:46] Dean Karrel: Yeah. Cold messaging. When you just go out and reach out to somebody and you hope that they go in their mailbox and open it up, I'm pretty good at that. A lot of people aren't or they have tons of them that come in and That's where you can get frustrated because Dean I sent [00:31:00] the note out and you didn't respond.

[00:31:02] Dean Karrel: And then I said, that goes back to what you need to do is customize those notes. I read your post on X, Y, Z topic, and I'm I'm interested in learning more from you. It's also being realistic. And also you gotta be focused on the right people. If you write out to Richard Branson and you're not gonna get a response.

[00:31:22] Dean Karrel: If you're right to, bill gates, or people with a hundred thousand or more connections, it's gonna be tough. It's gonna get buried in the mix. So what you look for, maybe somebody who has. 3000 connections or 500 connections or is building their network also. So it's being realistic with your approach of ha trying to reach people.

[00:31:41] Dean Karrel: Yeah. You have the cold messaging where you just send it out this way. I still like when somebody posts something responding that way, and the little technique of you highlight their name, when you make sure that their name is highlighted on your, their response. So they get notified. That you've responded.

[00:31:59] Dean Karrel: It's a little [00:32:00] tech important technique. 

[00:32:02] Khaulat: Yeah. Great. Okay. I think we mentioned this, do you have some tips on how to start networking when you don't know anyone or someone in a new city or a new country? 

[00:32:13] Dean Karrel: That's very easy for me to give an answer, but when you're living in those situations, it can be very difficult.

[00:32:19] Dean Karrel: And especially in this age, right now, with the pandemic of how we're all communicating and working globally anyway this traveling globally is very difficult when you're living in a city in a big city. Here's an example. There's a woman. I met a year and a half ago on LinkedIn.

[00:32:33] Dean Karrel: Again, she saw one of my stories. She wrote to me, she was from Prague and living now in the United States in Philadelphia. And she said, I don't know anybody. And I'm looking for a job and low and behold, because of my connections of, because of my LinkedIn sales courses, I've got about 15 people who live in Prague, the Czech Republic.

[00:32:52] Dean Karrel: So I said, do you know people in the states? And could you help this woman out here in the states? Who do you know in the states? Again, the basics. Of [00:33:00] networking. And and I told this woman also in big cities, it's easier, there are, and in the states, it is easier where we have a melting pot of different nationalities and different religions and cultures.

[00:33:10] Dean Karrel: And so in Philadelphia there is a Czech community. There are people from the Czech Republic who live in her area. So she was able to make connections that way. Again, it's looking for that one person you can sort on LinkedIn from your connections or you put in who is from, if you put in London, you're gonna have, 10 million names, but if you put in like a region or district and again, It's doing a strategic plan of trying to find the right people and easier said than done.

[00:33:39] Dean Karrel: I know when you move to a new city, it's also, it's a very lonely. 

[00:33:43] Khaulat: Yeah, thanks Dean. And again, this is a networking session and a lot of you have been commenting. Why not connect with each other, network with each other? There might be something somebody else commented that you are interested in, respond to it.

[00:33:59] Khaulat: Reach out to the [00:34:00] person that's all part of networking. That's how networking starts. There's no special place or time for networking. It can happen anywhere. 

[00:34:08] Dean Karrel: Correct. And you don't overthink it. Don't make it a chore. Just make it just it's communication. And it's being good to other people and reaching out and it's a two-way street.

[00:34:18] Dean Karrel: Always think of it that way. Don't think of it as a chore. 

[00:34:22] Khaulat: Yeah. I'll take this last question, any networking tips for students? 

[00:34:28] Dean Karrel: I think that's where you start. I think that's where you start. So if you have a class, let's say you're at a university or you're at an under you're at a high school or whatever it might be.

[00:34:36] Dean Karrel: You're not gonna learn everybody at the university. You're not gonna get to know everybody in your class, in high school or grade school, whatever it may be. Find three people. Who's somebody you respect. I'd like to stay in touch with. Again, I go back to my work at studies at New York university four years ago now.

[00:34:52] Dean Karrel: And there are three or four students there that I still stay in touch with. I stay in touch with a professor that's instructor there, Carol Russo. She taught a [00:35:00] great course. I said, I wanna stay in touch with you. And that's simple. And we communicate, we don't communicate every week, but a couple times a year, we check in with each other.

[00:35:08] Dean Karrel: So as a student, if there's a great professor or instructor, you've learned from reach out to them, can I stay in touch with you? What do you have to lose? They may say, no, I'm too busy. I don't have time. I have thousands of students who wanna stay in touch, pick an instructor, pick other two students you're impressed with, Hey, you know what I think he, or she's gonna be successful.

[00:35:27] Dean Karrel: Are there nice people? Just I'd like to stay in touch. How hard is that? 

[00:35:33] Khaulat: That's it. How do you maintain relationships Dean? Keeping the relationships strong.

[00:35:38] Dean Karrel: Yeah. Don't overthink it. Some sometimes relationships do fade away. I don't know anybody from my high school anymore. , that's just the way it happens. And from my first jobs, a lot of the people I used to work with have fades away that's life. And I often say to people, we have thousands of connections.

[00:35:54] Dean Karrel: A lot of people, but close people we can rely on is a lot smaller. And I have, [00:36:00] four or five really close colleagues, close friends that I stay in touch with another dozen or so that I'm regular contact with. And then I have LinkedIn connections that's maybe once or twice a year.

[00:36:10] Dean Karrel: A segue to that, an important part of it. I often talk to people about having a board of advisors. It's your board of directors. So you're always gonna get advice from a family member, good, bad or whatever. So a family member will say something and you'll have a close friend of yours is always gonna say, you're doing a great job.

[00:36:26] Dean Karrel: What you're looking for are honest people who give you good advice. So look to have a sphere of five to six people that you can seek out and get guidance from. And I use the phrase, your board of directors, circle of advisors. 

[00:36:41] Khaulat: Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much Dean for this amazing session, I loved it and I hope you did too.

[00:36:49] Khaulat: And I hope everyone joining live also enjoyed this session. Let's wrap this up with some advice you would give to a student or a recent graduate, just getting started with [00:37:00] networking. 

[00:37:01] Dean Karrel: The guidance here is look where all the countries are here in this discussion today. We are a global world global people.

[00:37:09] Dean Karrel: And the more you can communicate with people outside of Nigeria, outside of the US, outside of India wherever you may be living is going to be valuable to you down the road ,so, the advice I give is reach out, learn about other cultures, learn about other religions, learn about other people.

[00:37:26] Dean Karrel: And that is so important in networking and that'll help you throughout your career and in business. It'll also make us a better world if we all learn about each other a little bit more. So my advice is start with one person this afternoon, or this morning or tomorrow to reach out with and connect with. 

[00:37:43] Khaulat: Yeah, thank you Dean ,that's an amazing lesson.